Derek Horton - Elevate: A Podcast For Driven Real Estate Agents - Episode 9
Watch the Episode Here:
This week's episode features Derek Horton. Derek has years of experience being a mortgage banker and can offer great insight into the home buying process. As a real estate agent you want to have a good lender on your side. They can enable you to make better decisions for your client and bring invaluable information to the table.
In This Episode We Cover:
The importance of building a good team for your business.
What an underwriter looks for when looking at loans.
Some tips for agents just starting out.
Listen Along!
Read the Episode Here!
Derek Horton:
The amount of income that a realtor earns is directly impacted by the lender,
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent.
Derek Horton:
So you can work so hard as a realtor and you get a lead and you nurture that lead, and that lead becomes a client. And then you hand that client off to a bad lender and they never get to the closing table, and you never earn commission a hundred percent. And so the amount of money that an agent's going to earn next year is directly impacted by the lender. They choose just it.
Nathan Whitworth:
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Elevate. I am really glad you're here because we have Derek Horton on the podcast. Guys, I am stoked because Derek, you're the first mortgage person that we've had come awesome and talk. And this podcast is all about hopefully helping agents build their business, particularly if you're a newer agent. And I think one of the things that we're talking about before we came on the show, and I want you to tell us all about yourself, how you got into this and what your story is, but to give everybody kind of a little bit of foundation of why I wanted you to come on is because what you do is really a cornerstone in the transaction process. I think it, it's an essential part to thoroughly understand for every agent. And we were talking before we came on, not every agent really understands it super well. Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm really glad that you're here, man. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time, which is valuable, and coming on and spending some time with us and setting the record straight for some things and helping us better understand what you do. Man, it's such a really awesome, thank you. Awesome. Yeah. All right. So Derek, tell us, you're with Southern first. Southern first. How'd you get into this business?
Derek Horton:
So first of all, thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Super excited to be here. So I was in banking 2012 doing all kinds of general banking and went through a mortgage process about that time. And it was really bad
Nathan Whitworth:
For
Derek Horton:
Yourself, for myself, for yourself, for myself. And it was a bad experience. It was choppy, A lot of anxiety, a lot of stress. I never knew what was going on and it was just a disaster. So I went to banking school and had a friend that I graduated with and he was in mortgage. And along the ways I had helped a few mortgage bankers in Greenville do loans. Okay. Like home equity lines, not a mortgage, cuz I wasn't doing mortgages,
Nathan Whitworth:
He
Derek Horton:
Locks and stuff like that. Some of the guys that I was doing loans for were really bad at their job and they were doing really successful financially. And so I was like, what the heck is going on? How are these guys? I remember going home with my wife, I was like, listen, this knucklehead's making this much money and was, he's not even good. So fast forward, reached out to my friend from banking school who was in mortgage and was like, Hey, I wanna chat with you about this. So over sushi, we had a conversation and in 2016 I was like, I'm jumping ship. I'm getting all into mortgage. Mortgage is a full commission job at least where I am in most places. And so it was really terrifying. Mm-hmm. Going from a safe salary to,
Nathan Whitworth:
I mean, you were essentially starting your own business, right?
Derek Horton:
You're starting your own. Yeah. You're starting from scratch a right. A hundred percent. So you're going from a salary. But in 2016 I was like, all right, beginning of 17 I will be somewhere doing mortgages full-time. Cool. And so went all in early January of 2017, joined Southern first and it's been fun.
Nathan Whitworth:
That's awesome, man. That's very cool. Yeah, so it's really funny that you mentioned the fact that you had a rough transaction yourself, because I don't think that that's fairly common. I It's very common. I think it's very common that most people experience that where you mentioned the lack of communication, not knowing, which is the worst part, not knowing what's going on. Underwriting seems like this magical land where it's things could happen or things could not happen, or you know, never know really what the process looks like. And I think the agents, in my opinion, and I wanna get your opinion on this, but just to see what you think. But I think that the agents who can demystify that process as much as possible for the people that they're working with, always tend to have a better client experience. And that's what, that's what every agent wants. Every agent wants a smooth transaction, a great customer experience, because you need that walking, talking billboard. You need that person to go say, Hey, it was so easy to get this thing done with this person. Yeah. That's always what you want. Always,
Derek Horton:
Always. Yeah. You, you've visioned the underwriter kind of in the back room, evil, trying to
Nathan Whitworth:
Pet petting like a cat. Yeah.
Derek Horton:
Petting, petting a cat, <laugh>, waiting to deny the loan. Most of them aren't like that though. But there is that feeling. And I think the really reason is because people don't understand what they're looking for. Mortgage people are, mortgage bankers are really bad at communicating. They're kinda like the contractors. You try to get 'em to call you back and they don't call you back or they don't show up when they say they're going to. And so it can make for a really stressful process. A hundred percent. A lot of anxiety.
Nathan Whitworth:
All the fear and anxiety just comes from not knowing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So let's take it from a 30,000 foot level. What is your role in this whole process, in the whole transaction? What's your role? Where do you come in from an agent's perspective, where do you come into the process and what should they know about what you do?
Derek Horton:
So that's a great question. I view a really good mortgage banker job is to absorb all the stress of the transaction for the client and for the agent really. And that's kind of how I look at my role. So the reason a real estate transaction is so stressful, it's got so many different moving parts, right? You've got the seller, you've got the buyer, you've got two agents, you've got the appraiser, you've got the attorney, you've got the inspector, you've got the lender, and the lender's got people around him or her. And so you've got all these people and they're one person getting off can throw everything off. So it's super stressful. So most lenders kind of live in a silo, they're only going to worry about the loan. And so I think the really good mortgage bankers learn to absorb and be the middle man amongst all these parties.
Oh, that's cool. And be someone that, we can't talk directly to the appraiser, but we can make sure that the comps that they provided are good. And if they're not, we can send them back, send back additional comps if there's an issue with title, rather than having to worry the realtor with it and say, Hey, they gotta deal with this. We'll make the call for 'em. So we come in, I think a really good mortgage banker the best processes I've seen, the realtor gets the mortgage person involved very early and there's clear communication between all of, and most agents don't do that. I mean, there's times I get CL calls from agents and they're like, Hey, I've been showing clients houses for two weeks but they need a pre-approval cuz they're going to make an offer. And I'm like, you've been showing 'em houses wasting your time. They can't buy that house a hundred percent percent. I see that all the time. A hundred percent. And so I think getting that pre-approval, getting your partners in, whether that's your lender or whoever in early makes all the difference in the world
Nathan Whitworth:
That that's cool. And again, for people who just start this process, it's really not that hard to connect the person with a lender that you trust to get that pre-approval process started. It's easy and the preapproval gets turned around relatively quick, right?
Derek Horton:
Oh yeah. I mean same day. A lot of times it depends. It depends
Nathan Whitworth:
On, it depends. It depends. Yeah. It depends. It depends. But generally, generally. But generally, yeah. It's a pretty quick process. Yeah.
Derek Horton:
Quick process. So this is just happened this past weekend. New agents never reached out to me before could not get whatever lender they work with was just mia. Mm-hmm. No responses. They sent the client to 'em, respond to the client, didn't respond to the realtor. And this other realtor said, Hey, call Derek. He'll get a pre-approval letter out. It made me really think the amount of income that a realtor earns is directly impacted by the lender.
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent.
Derek Horton:
So you can work so hard as a realtor and you get a lead and you nurture that lead and that lead becomes a client and then you hand that client off to a bad lender and they never get to the closing table hundred and you never earn commission a hundred percent. And so the amount of money that an agent's going to earn next year is directly impacted by the lender. They choose
Nathan Whitworth:
It. That's awesome. And it's really interesting to take that even a step further. The people that the realtors are referring their clients to, it's a reflection of them and it's a reflection of their brand. I mean, I would feel terrible and I'm sure that that agent did too. I would feel terrible if I said, Hey, get your preapproval letter from this lender and then they could never get in touch with a person. They could never get the preapproval. There was zero communication. That's a port reflection on the agent. And that's something that I think realtors should consider too. The people that you surround yourself with, the team that you surround yourself with to get your clients to the finish line. Massively important. Yeah, massively important. Yeah. So that's such a well said.
Derek Horton:
Yeah. And you work so hard for those leads.
Nathan Whitworth:
You do man.
Derek Horton:
And then they're not just when they're a lead, they're not even a client
Nathan Whitworth:
Yet. That's right. You
Derek Horton:
Gotta convince 'em cuz there's other agents trying to get 'em too
Nathan Whitworth:
<laugh>.
Derek Horton:
So true. And then you handle off to some knucklehead who never gets it done and they never buy a house because it gets fumbled around. So
Nathan Whitworth:
Let's hang out here on this point for a second. What should an agent, when they're looking for that team, that the people that they're looking to refer their clients to, what should they be looking out for? I mean, what are some maybe either some red lights that they should be seeing early on that maybe it's not a good fit, or what should they be looking for as green lights that they say, Hey, this is the person I wanna help connect my clients to.
Derek Horton:
So I think in terms of number one, I think the first thing an agent should look for is what's the reputation of the lender? And you can get that through other realtors. Sure, you can get that through Google, you know, can pull up Google and you can see how many clients love Derek, how many clients hated Derek? A hundred percent. Hopefully there's not a lot of balance ones. You can see it on social media. The lenders who are probably knowledgeable, right? So you're vetting what's the reputation. So I think number one, I think number two's just as critical. And that's accessibility. So this lender may have a great reputation, but they might be full and not have capacity for another realtor, a hundred percent or not have capacity to help another client. And so how quick do they call you back? How quick do they respond to you? Do they respond to your texts? And you can get a feel pretty quickly. If you're waiting six hours for them to reply to a text, they're not going to be a good partner because real estate's moving. We gotta make offers, we gotta get the preapproval done, so we gotta move
Nathan Whitworth:
Fast. Timing is
Derek Horton:
Everything. So I think reputation, accessibility. And then I think the third thing that people don't think about, if I had to say one is just do you enjoy doing business with 'em? Yeah. Because you're going to talk to this person constantly. A lot. The realtors that do a lot of business with me, I talk to them all the time, multiple times a week a lot of times. So you don't want to do business with somebody, you gotta communicate with a hundred percent on your nerve. So yeah, I think if you could find someone with a great reputation, they have capacity, they're accessible, they're good at follow up, they're good at communication. That all kind of falls there. And then if you,
Nathan Whitworth:
'em, I think what you're talking about here, if I could sum it all up into one word, is who do you feel like you can trust? True. Right? Because at the end of the day, again, just like you, and I've never considered that point before, it's such a good point. An agent spends all their time trying to find that lead. They get that lead in, they start the process. And if at the finish line you get screwed by the person you're working with for, forgive me for saying that. Yeah, yeah. But if at the end of the process if something goes wrong, then that's a big problem. That's a big problem. Because if the person that you were with, maybe you didn't fully trust but you were like, I think this might work. But something, those kind of things can often throw a deal sideways and it is significant.
I think it's really cool. The other thing we're going to talk about a little bit later when we get there is what you do on social media. Cause I think that's the other thing that, and I think this is the reason why I bring this up, is because agents can learn a lot from this. I think this is something that a lot of agents are thinking about right now. Right now it's kind of the slow time in their calendar. There's not a lot of sales going on right now. And so this is the time that a lot of people tend to focus on marketing. You should be focusing on marketing all time. But this is the time that a lot of come at all times. But this is the time that a lot of agents do turn their attention to marketing and what you're doing with social content man is really cool. Thank you man. Yeah, it's very cool. So that's awesome. So tell me just a few, and we'll get to the social media stuff later, but tell me a few of, we were mentioning earlier, there's a few horror stories, there's a couple of things that you've seen that as far as clients that can really kind of shoot themselves in the foot
Derek Horton:
A little bit. And some of them are, these are all from years ago, but clients do all kind of funny things when buying a house, right? It's a stressful time. I don't know sometimes not all of 'em, but there's a small major percentage of clients who will just do crazy things. So we've all heard the, you're right, you're getting ready to buy the house and you go buy a car. That's the typical thing. But I've had clients that spent, they're closing money on a vacation right before. So that's pretty interesting. The
Nathan Whitworth:
Money that they had to bring to closing
Derek Horton:
The money that they were going to bring to closing, they spent a little too much in Mexico. The margaritas were too good. So I've had that happen. I've had clients that were under contract got a divorce or decided they were going to get a divorce between now and 30 days. So halfway in between. I've had people that who forged tons of documents to get a loan. Whoa. So yeah, it can get super wild obviously. And then people who just go out and buy furniture, open a credit card and those kind of things. But yeah, I mean bank statement people, mortgage fraud is out there and so it's nuts when you come across stuff like that. Cuz
Nathan Whitworth:
I hear mortgage fraud often. Is it really that, is it that
Derek Horton:
Big of a thing? It's not that big of a thing. Okay. No, but it's happened. Sure, it's happened to me. Yeah. Wow. So that's crazy. Got good operations people that are looking out and check double checking things and making sure things are good. But yeah, I'm trying to think if, I think the craziest, besides the mortgage fraud, the craziest one is spending your money on a vacation right before you buy a house. Yeah. And that's crazy. You have to delay the closing.
Nathan Whitworth:
What do you think you're going, what money are you bringing?
Derek Horton:
You gotta delay till you get paid again and then we're going to buy this house. Yeah,
Nathan Whitworth:
That's so funny. So
Derek Horton:
They had a great time in Mexico. They did.
Nathan Whitworth:
Yes. I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure they had some good drinks. Yeah. So the next thing I wanna talk about is demystifying the process, which nobody knows what's going on. That back room, which is the underwriting process. So to help agents, to me, this is something that I've come across a lot in my own purchasing. So I'm an investor when we buy our own property and as a primary homeowner who's done this several times. Yeah, it's really interesting because the agents that I've worked with before, even personally, the more that I feel like they can think an underwriter when they're helping their client the smoother everything ends up happening going after that fact. And so what you're think talking about there, some of the pitfalls, some of the things you shouldn't do, educate in the client on that. Yeah, because I think that even though we laugh about that, cuz you, you've seen a lot of it. For most people, again, who only does this twice in their life,
Derek Horton:
Three, four
Nathan Whitworth:
Times. They'll do it often max in their life. They don't do it often. So these are not things that they think about often. So helping to educate them on what they should shouldn't do, but also what is their current situation, the pre-qualification process that Oh yeah, an agent would hopefully go through to feel out what position are they in, how can we best help them and then hook them up with you for that pre, pre-qual letter. Kind of talk me through that. Talk me through underwriting how, again, maybe from, not to get too technical, but from a 30,000 foot level, what should agents know about the underwriting process that would help them better be able to do
Derek Horton:
That? Yeah, absolutely. So underwriters, we laughed earlier about them being the big bad wolf. They're not necessarily the big bad wolf. In fact, one, I introduced an agent to one of our underwriters recently. She's like, that is not what I pictured. So I don't know what she pictured, but she did not picture the human being.
Nathan Whitworth:
Normal
Derek Horton:
People, just normal people's, just normal people. So they're not in a big bad wolf. So really there's, in banking, when you're getting a loan, there's five, what they call five C's. The five C's of, and they're just words that start with the literacy in mortgage, there's really four. And just to be cliche, you can use the four, but this is the four things that underwriters are looking for in every loan. So number one is credit, right? It's referred to in banking as character, but it's really credit. And what that means is if I lend you a thousand dollars, are you going to pay me back
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent?
Derek Horton:
And not just are you going to pay me back, but are you going to pay me back on time? Right? Because I don't wanna pick up the phone every month and say, Hey, can you send me that money you owe me every month? So the credit system, this could be a whole nother podcast. It's definitely broken the credit bureaus and how that functions. But that's the only true way an underwriter has to know, if I lend you this money, are you going to pay my company back a
Nathan Whitworth:
Hundred percent.
Derek Horton:
So they're looking at credit for better or worse. Number two, they're looking at what bankers refer to as capacity. So you have the capacity to pay back the loan. Yeah, your credit's great, awesome. You've paid back every loan you have, but do you have enough income? What are your debts? And do you have the capacity with those debts and that income to pay this new
Nathan Whitworth:
Mortgage? We're referring to DTI
Derek Horton:
Here, debt income. Yep. Yep. So if you make a hundred dollars a month and you're trying to get a loan that's going to have you spending $75 a month, you're probably not going to get the loan right? Cause you don't have any money. So it's just simple terms. But yeah, sure. What's the capacity of the client employment history job? So you know how that is getting a loan
Nathan Whitworth:
Stuff, it's different. Yeah.
Derek Horton:
So you've got the credit, you've got the capacity or their income and the employment side, then you have capital, that's the next C and all that is, where's the money coming from for you to purchase the house? A hundred percent. So you went through the loan process and hey, I need your bank statements cuz I need to make sure you've got the money you say you're going to have. We don't need you dropping, bringing a briefcase of cash. Not that nobody knows about
Nathan Whitworth:
<laugh> heard
Derek Horton:
That story.
Nathan Whitworth:
Mattress money. That's not loud Since 2008. 2008. That's about, that's exactly what I was about to say. Yeah. A lot of these, because isn't it true that a lot of this really had, yeah, 2008 was the catalyst that changed really what the vetting process was and the lending process was for all West Lot, a lot of the rules that we have now didn't exist back then, right? Oh yeah.
Derek Horton:
<laugh> a great clip in the big short where
Nathan Whitworth:
That's a great movie.
Derek Horton:
They're vetting, they bring in because they hear this idea of the bonds, the mortgage bonds tanking these mortgage backed securities and they don't believe that can happen. And so they bring in these mortgage bankers and they're asking them about their client base and they ask 'em, have you ever ever denied a loan? And they bust out last it is a great, great scene. And the other guy's, I just, he's, I was a waiter six months ago and I just bought a boat. I mean it's a great scene, but it's true. It was kind of the wild west. Anybody could get a loan, it was easy. You didn't really care where the money was coming from. And so now with the new guidelines just to shore up our whole mortgage system across the country, you bankers have to know where that money's coming from and it can be gift funds. So it's not like it's gotta be all your money, but you can't just mysteriously drop a hundred thousand in your account and the day before closing
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent and it'd be okay.
Derek Horton:
Yeah. So anyway, you're looking at credit character or that kind of the capacity to pay back the loan. You're looking at that aspect. And then the last aspect is the collateral, right? So the property and this, you've got appraisers, they're going to make sure that the property is valued at least of what you're buying it for and somewhat of the condition of
Nathan Whitworth:
The property, right? A hundred
Derek Horton:
Percent. So I just tell people, those are the four big things that underwriters are looking for. It's not really mysterious. And if you have a good lend lending partner as an agent, those things are everything. But the appraisal, the other three things have been done
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent.
Derek Horton:
Yeah. Well,
Nathan Whitworth:
And just to take a step back, which I think is also important to say, if you pick a great partner, if you're surrounding yourself with a great team, and like you were talking about earlier, the communication lines of communication are open between you, the agent and the client. Yeah. No matter all of this gets solved pretty quickly, solved, not say if there's a problem that you can't like. But all of this really becomes a lot easier because you are the person who's helping to educate the client and make sure that everything is staying on track. Yeah. Am I right about that? Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred
Derek Horton:
Percent. Yeah. Yeah. You're keeping in communication, the good loan officers communicate frequently with the agent and the client constantly through the process. It's so much anxiety and stress. And so the good ones are alleviating that stress through communication,
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent
Derek Horton:
Communication's alleviating a hundred percent. And it's simple. It's not like it's rocket science here. Yeah,
Nathan Whitworth:
That's awesome. And one of the best pieces of advice, and again this is for agents, but one of the best pieces of advice that I've always heard is to communicate frequently and communicate often regardless if you have new information or not. Sometimes things could be going just a little while longer if underwriting is still going for as an agent, and again, I'm not an agent, but this is something that just made a ton of sense to me because I actually experienced this as a buyer and as a seller, when they reached out and just say, Hey, I just wanna let you know, haven't heard back yet. Things are still in motion, everything's going good. There's no problems. Yeah. Just wanted to let you guys know there's no updates. Yeah, man. As a client, that is massively beneficial to reducing stress and friction. Absolutely. So I think that's just a big thing. Lots and lots of communication usually will solve almost any problem that you have.
So let's talk about for a second, let's switch over to what you're doing on social media as a marketing agency, as we are helping agents do their thing, it's really interesting watching people in the real estate profession, what they're doing on social media. You mentioned earlier you're all commission to go out there and nurture your own leads is also important as a professional. And what you've been doing on social media has been really interesting to watch. It's been really, really good. Can you kind of talk to me for a second about your approach? And guys, he was not prepared, we did not ask him to come out and talk about this stuff. So you're kind of off the cuff here a little bit, but if you to just were to share a couple things, how do you approach social media? Are you on Instagram more than anything else? Yeah,
Derek Horton:
Instagram. Okay. Instagram and TikTok. That's cool. Yeah. And LinkedIn.
Nathan Whitworth:
Where do you see the most? What do you enjoy the most? Where do you see the most engagement?
Derek Horton:
So probably the most engagement is with Instagram. That's cool. Just because I've been on there longer, I have a lot of relationships with local agents and so constantly trying to put out information that they would find valuable, trying to peel back the curtain a little bit so that people see the process and understand a little more. So it's not darker roomish. Sure. What's the underwriter doing? Yeah. But probably Instagram, TikTok has been fun. Yeah. Made me I, I'm a fun lighthearted person already. I love humor and comedy and all that, but doing some skits and things with some of the team at the bank has been super fun. That's awesome. And I don't think without TikTok I would've done that. I think I would've been a straight just conversations or just me talking to the camera, giving information. But it's kind of made me,
Nathan Whitworth:
Do you have a approach? And that's okay if you don't, but is there something that you're try, are you trying to say, Hey, I wanna do a video a day or maybe two videos a week. And it, there's no right or wrong here. I'm just curious, do you have a system that you're trying to play by right now? Yeah.
Derek Horton:
So I don't, I'm trying to put out content ev something every day. And it might not be a video of me it be I, it could be a post text post about an arm adjustable rate mortgage or something like that. I'm trying to just put out valuable information constantly. I'm not really and I think this is probably a good approach for everybody. I'm trying to just bring value and that value can be a laugh. Some days that value can be boring, adjustable rate mortgage information. But I'm just trying to add value constantly. And so it's been fun, especially doing the skits that we do or whatever. So check it out if you've seen, we've got some funny ones up, but it's fun.
Nathan Whitworth:
That's really cool to me, I've always seen that there's really two major categories here that you can pretty much boil down any successful social media strategy to. It's either highly entertaining or it's either it's highly educational. Yes. It's usually one of the two best is the blend of the two.
Derek Horton:
The blend.
Nathan Whitworth:
The blend, which I think is really powerful. So that
Derek Horton:
Edutainment
Nathan Whitworth:
Au entertainment. Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah. Entertainment. And your accountant does that super well. And that's what really kind of got picked up. My notice, I was watching it. Some of the skits you've done, is that, are those pre-planned? Is that something that in the moment you're like, Hey, that'd be funny, you just go do it?
Derek Horton:
Yeah. So sometimes we have our own ideas. Sometimes there's people around the office, either there's two gentlemen that are us in the videos, one's another lender and one's kind of a alert what do you call it? A apprentice lender. So those two, we sometimes come up with ideas
Nathan Whitworth:
And do you just go grab 'em and you're just like, Hey, we do it.
Derek Horton:
We did one with the funeral music recently and who's got something that looks like you're in a casket around here? And so they went around till they found a blanket to all the cubes. Awesome. We're like five floors, tons of cubes. And they walked around to one of 'em, walked around till they found a blanket, we laid it down. It's just fun.
Nathan Whitworth:
But I think there's some lessons just to be learned here. And we're talking about a very simple thing, but there's an increasing number of agents who are saying, I know that this is important. I know this is a way for me to be able to increase my visibility and to be able to garner more leads. I know that. Okay, but I don't know how to do this. Yeah. I'm not creative. This is something that you hear a lot, right? Yeah. I'm not creative but for you. So I wanna give a couple of examples of some of the skits that you've done, just to give an idea of what we're talking about here. But you get other people involved and I think that that's okay, right? Yeah. If you're an agent, go get two or three other agents involved and you know, were like, hey, so I've got this idea, where can we find a casket?
And then you guys spent a little bit of time running around the office trying to figure out how you could put together a little casket for the video. And again, somebody's just filming on their cell phone. Right? Yeah. I do believe that there's a time and a place for highly produced media. For sure, for sure. But honestly, it doesn't have to be. No. 99% of the content that you're producing can very much be somebody filming it with a cell phone and you're going to get that engagement. Yeah. Going to be okay. So yeah, I think that's the first barrier. Most people think it has to be professionally staged professionally. And it doesn't,
Derek Horton:
I would echo that. I don't have nobody, nobody's doing my social media. I don't have any lighting. If you see even the videos, I'm talking to the camera, you're a light, a marketing guy. I'm like, you're like, dang Derek, we gotta get Derek some lights. I mean, it's just me with this. So I, I don't feel like people will come up. Most people have an excuse, well I don't have lighting, I don't have ideas, I don't have this. You just gotta do it. You know, just gotta jump. And realtors are way better than mortgage bankers. Sure, sure. I get calls from mortgage bankers all the time.
Nathan Whitworth:
You're a rarity and you're dealing,
Derek Horton:
I get calls from mortgage bankers and they're like, what do I need to do? It's tough out there. And I'm like, listen, why are you not on social media? <laugh>, right? They're like, well I'm, I'm like, gotta do
Nathan Whitworth:
It. Right.
Derek Horton:
You gotta do it. Yeah. They're calling random, I don't know, calling random people, trying to get coffee appointments with realtors. And those realtors never heard of 'em. If they were on social media, there's a high likelihood there would be. It's like a warm intro,
Nathan Whitworth:
Right? A hundred percent.
Derek Horton:
It's the realtor feels like, oh, I know whoever it is. My buddy Nelson Poe in the business, they know Nelson already from social media. A hundred percent Nelson, get on social media
Nathan Whitworth:
A game, a game changer. I mean, it's funny for an agent, the people who are on social, and I've had this conversation numerous times, they'll go to that listing appointment and they sit down and they start the presentation, they get a, and they're like, Hey, no, we know you. We don't need all this. All the information's great, but we're not trying to sell us. We're ready to sign. And that's what you want, right? Yeah. You want them to come to you just ready to buy that ultimately what the goal is. And so can you take us through some of thes? Like what, just outta curiosity you and I know that you don't have the data and all that kinda stuff. Yeah. But just from top, what are some of the most engaging, what's some of the skits that's produced? The most engagement?
Derek Horton:
So anything to do with an underwriter will always produce engaging.
Nathan Whitworth:
I've gotta get an underwriter on this show. Yeah.
Derek Horton:
Anything to do with an underwriter. So for example have you seen the little guy Hezbollah that? Yeah. Okay. So I didn't put this on Instagram, but TikTok real determined and I just put in the captions, me walking to the underwriter's office to tell them they calculated the income wrong. That's awesome. And that got tons of engagement on TikTok. But the skits the one you mentioned with where I'm laughing with the underwriter. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm laughing, I'm laughing, but they're jokes not funny, but I gotta laugh cuz I need to approve my lawn.
Nathan Whitworth:
And it's hilarious because you're laughing, you're bending over and then you just kind of look in the camera. So just make
Derek Horton:
Sure they're not funny. They're not funny. There's no underwriter. That's funny. The funeral one is funny because you're laying in a casket and the guys that I mentioned will come over and they lean over the casket and they go, Hey buddy, sorry it's a bad day for you, but I need a pre-approval letter. And that's just being funny because clients will call you and that's part of our job. Sure. I'm making fun at it. But sure. People offers a lot of times on weekends. So we have to work when we don't wanna work. So that, that's just kind of a joke one. And then anytime, any time doing a voiceover, I did one recently with the Grinch about from the Grinch movie talking about all the holiday parties you gotta go to. And the Grinch in the movie, he's like, I'm not going to go, I'm going to go, I'm not going to go, I'm not going to go. I'm going to go. And he's going back and forth. So any of those things, and those are all from ideas from TikTok, just that I either saw or thought that would be a
Nathan Whitworth:
Good idea. A hundred percent. And I think that's an really good strategy. If you're sitting there wondering what should I do? There's probably already content out there that can be repurposed. A
Derek Horton:
Thousand percent
Nathan Whitworth:
That can be repurposed. And honestly, if you just go and you look at what the top performing media is, if you go to TikTok, you go to the hashtag check and see what other people are doing. Yeah. That's producing a strong result. And then just put your own spin on it. Thousand percent. You don't have to create things a hundred percent from scratch and you've seen that actually play out. You, you were able to do it on your own and yeah,
Derek Horton:
Repurpose. Repurpose. Yeah. I think if I were talking to realtors who were not on social media or were just, they have it but they're not doing anything with it, I would say go follow. Go find the people that you look up to who are on social media, whoever they are, they don't have to be in the market. They can be whoever, they could be in Idaho, but be a good realtor and maybe you met them at a realtor conference or you followed them or you just know them from tv. I don't know. Sure. But go follow them and see what they're doing. And you don't, you're not going to copy their, their videos verbatim. But if one of them is constantly talking about I seller paid buy downs or whatever the strategy happens to be and they're getting a lot of engagement, you know, can do some sort of video around that topic. And the crazy thing is with TikTok and stuff, you can see how many views they have. So, or plays. So you know, can go look at really successful people. Ryan's Sirhan. Sure. Who has a wildly successful social media following. Well some of his videos don't get much engagement. But then others get huge engagement. Huge engagement. So what did he do in those videos is different.
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent.
Derek Horton:
Do something, learn from that one, take one piece of it. Go do some video. Yeah, I've got videos that get 12 views and I've got videos that get right. Tons. Right, okay.
Nathan Whitworth:
Right. And I think removing some of that fear, I think that there's a concept out there where it's like, I don't wanna publish anything out into the world that is not the most professional look and sound and is of the highest caliber of comedy. And yeah,
There is a lot of people who look and feel that way and that becomes a barrier to them doing anything. And to me, and this is just my opinion, but to me the most important thing is to do and to start and tot test, then you can change. Right? Then you can evaluate what's getting traction, what's not getting traction, what seems to work, what's not working, and then just evolve. Right. That's what this is. It really is evolving. And for most all of the content's going to a very much a merit-based system. So if you have a video that doesn't work, okay, yeah. You get another at bat the next time. Totally. And it's not like that video that you post, they didn't get the views that you wanted or the engagement. Yeah. It's not going to negatively affect your next chance. No. So don't feel like you're failed or that you're hurting your account. Yeah. There's a lot of people who feel that way. You're not hurting your account or your chances at growth or your chances to get in front of Yeah. Great leads. You've got another at bat then literally the next day. Yeah.
Derek Horton:
Yeah. You know, mentioned this, it's so hard for people to want to be on camera, right? Yeah. And I get it. It's like you're putting yourself out there, you know?
Nathan Whitworth:
Was it always easy for you?
Derek Horton:
No, it wasn't always easy. I think one thing that I think can help people is you're not being the focus. So you're getting other people involved. Sure. So early on, if you're trying to get comfortable with it, maybe you just walk around with your phone and you interview people
Nathan Whitworth:
A hundred percent
Derek Horton:
In your office. A hundred percent. You ask other realtors like Hey John you could walk around and ask, Hey, what was the price at the first house you purchased? Right? And you could walk around and ask that to 20 people in the office and then throw it up there, tag 'em all. You're going to get engagement and you're not the one being focused on. So you feel more comfortable. So a hundred percent, maybe you do that all the time, maybe you're never the one focused on, but there's ways to do it where you're not looking straight at the camera. Yeah,
Nathan Whitworth:
That's a great point. And I saw one time that was really interesting, even for me cuz as the market kind of normalizes and we have interest rates that are way more normal than the 2%, yeah. Free money we've had for the last several years. There was an agent who walked around the office and was basically like, Hey, what was the first interest rate on your first house that you ever got? And that, that's interesting because then it puts it into perspective. It's an educational tool that puts things into perspective. But you're right, you get all those added benefits to the fact that you're not the one on camera, you're not having to come up with the content, all that kind of stuff. So it's
Derek Horton:
Very, that's point. And you're involving other people, right? And they're going to post on their social media when you post it, they're going to repost it to their story or whatever. And so you're just getting more exposure.
Nathan Whitworth:
A
Derek Horton:
Hundred percent. There's a great and I can't remember the guy's name I think it was on the podcast, another podcast diary of a CEO maybe, I can't remember exactly, but he was talking about on YouTube, he would post videos all the time and he would get 10 views, 12 views, nothing. And he said he kept doing it for a while and nothing had come of it. This is a crazy story. So this is going to happen to the average person, but it could happen in a small, on a smaller scale. Anyway, long story short, he gets a call from one day and they said they were from Oprah Winfrey's office and they wanted to chat with him or Oprah wanted to chat with him. So long story short, Oprah had an idea for a new TV show on her network and somebody had seen his video on YouTube and they said, oh you should check out this guy.
He said he's not exaggerating. He was getting 10, 12, 15 views and three of 'em were his family members. So she went and looked and loved him and thought he was fantastic and he ended up work coming to work for Oprah. Interesting. So it's not like that's going to happen for the average person, but what's what is going to happen for that agent is eventually someone's going to refer them business because they see them or they saw their post. And this happens to me sometimes somebody will go, I just saw your post about an adjustable rate mortgage, can you call me and talk to me about it? So an agent's going to post something and eventually being consistent, someone's going to message you and that's gold. A
Nathan Whitworth:
Hundred
Derek Horton:
Percent. Because one client turns into multiple clients over time because if you do a good job, they're going to refer you and then they go a hundred percent. So I think it only takes one.
Nathan Whitworth:
It really does. It really does. And we've been talking a lot about lead generation. I think that there's another side of it, which is lead nurturing. Once they, once they say they get a referral and they're, Hey, there's this guy Derek Horton, he's amazing. He's going to help you through the entire process. He's going to make that transaction smoother than any other mortgage person can. And they go, okay cool. They look you up, they go to Instagram, bro, by the time they get finished just spending 15 minutes on Instagram, they're going to be like, I love this guy
Derek Horton:
<laugh>. Like I love this guy. Can I do a skit? Kidding. Yeah.
Nathan Whitworth:
And that is also immensely
Derek Horton:
Valuable, right? Instant credibility.
Nathan Whitworth:
Instant credibility. And
Derek Horton:
Whether you're honestly is terrible cuz whether you're credible or not, but
Derek Horton:
Instant, that can be dangerous for sure. But for most people it's
Nathan Whitworth:
Great. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that's really cool. And the last thing I wanna say here, which is I think you made a great point, I'm just going to say it a different way, is that I often say that, and this is a double negative, but people can't hire you. They can't have you serve them if they don't know you exist. Right. And that's fundamentally the first problem of any business, regardless of the industry, regardless of what you do. How do I get what I believe out there? How do I get what we stand for out there? How do we can help people out there? And social media is a great tool for that. And even a few years ago I was more reluctant than I am now. A few years ago I have evolved in this thing because I used to be be very much of the opinion that hey I can build personal relationships. There's no reason to do this, there's no reason to go. Even my opinion has changed in my experience of how powerful this medium can be. So yeah, I think that's really important points. And
Derek Horton:
It is just another tool in your tool belt. A hundred percent. And your competitor, the thing about it is your competitor's using it and you're not so Right. They gotta a leg up.
Nathan Whitworth:
Right? They just do
Derek Horton:
Do so that's get on it today. Start and it's never too late.
Nathan Whitworth:
Well, and I've had this conversation with a lot of agents over the past two months or so, is that I'm a pretty firm believer that as we're moving into the next era here of the industry that there is massive opportunity for agents who will spend the time and energy it takes to get good at this. Yeah.
Because there is massive market share that can you take up massive market share as a competitive agent being competitive, try to get as much business as you can. Soak up a lot of market share of the future buyers, the future sellers. You can soak up a lot of market share if you work to get really good at doing this thing now. And it's a skill just like anything else, learning to post, learning what an emoji is and how to use it. Learning how to use trending music, like learning what skits you could be doing and how to get better at it. All of that feels very uncomfortable up front. It's like a person swinging a baseball bat. The first time you're going to ride a bike, you're going to fall. Yep. Right. It's a skill. The more you do it, the better at it you get. And it totally, there is a mountain of gold at the end if you put in the work consistently every day, which you have and you're seeing the benefits from. Yeah,
Derek Horton:
Absolutely. Yeah. Constantly. That's really cool. And I think for me it talked about it, it's credibility, but it's also when Agent A gets a contract and they see my name on it. Yeah. They go because it matters who gets the preapproval, right? No offense to some big banks, but if you get the name of a big bank on a preapproval letter, the owner's going to go and their agent is going to go their finances with so and so a hundred
Nathan Whitworth:
Percent. But
Derek Horton:
They may not know me personally, but they've seen me on social media. And so that gives my client who's making the offer an advantage that we don't think about a lot of times as from the lending side I've told other lenders, you need to do everything you can to give your buyer client, cuz I'm helping the buyer an advantage. That's such good. Social media helps
Nathan Whitworth:
That.
Derek Horton:
That's such a good point. And it's the same way on the real estate side, given an advantage to their client by their exposure.
Nathan Whitworth:
Well said. So well said. Let me ask you from somebody who's on the mortgage side of things, and as we're kind of bringing the episode in for landing the, talk to me for a second about interest rates and talk to me for a second, not that I wanna get too much into this, but how do you encourage agents to encourage their clients to think about interest rates right now? There's a lot of fear right now. There's a lot of people who hate having to pay an a higher interest rate than their neighbor did literally six months ago, right? Yeah. So what do you think about it? What's your perspective? How do you talk with agents to maybe to help them help their clients think about the place that we're in right now? Yeah,
Derek Horton:
So I mean there's a lot of the morg, the mortgage world and I mean the mortgage market rate wise moves up and down. We're technically historically in a really normal mortgage market, a hundred percent rates are where they probably should be maybe a little lower, but the 2% was unhealthy.
Nathan Whitworth:
A yeah, that's
Derek Horton:
A hundred percent. And I don't think, we'll see, this is just me personally, I don't think we'll see the threes again for a long, long time. So hopefully the fours we'll see. But I think four and a half to 6% is probably pretty normal. A hundred percent
Nathan Whitworth:
And far healthier, I think far healthier. I think that's in the agent's best interest for interest rates to be <laugh>. Yes. In a healthy normal place because I, it can really drive a lot of unhealthy things in the housing market that's going to just make an agent's job a lot harder and in their life a lot harder.
Derek Horton:
For a long time. And this is kind of getting off on a separate thing, but I'll say it quickly. For a long time you've got conventional loans and jumbo loans and the, there's a limit. So at some point it moves into the jumbo territory, which is another product. But forever, the conventional loan just kind of went from 4 24 to four 30 to four whatever. Well the last few years, because interest rates have been so low and the madness of people wanting to buy houses, prices appreciated fast. So now all of a sudden we go from 4 24 to 5 40, 5 40 to six 40 and this year it's going to be 7 26. So in 2023. So I mean it's house prices have just forced it up. And so if we pull back rates again way down, they're going to do the same thing a hundred percent and they're going to make be even more unaffordable a hundred percent. So I think ultimately I would like to see just steadiness in the market, just steady balance. And if we land at six and a half, that's fine, let's just keep it steady for a
Nathan Whitworth:
While. And people need predictability. They need it, they need it. They need to know that if I were to buy in at this point, that stability that's going to be there for the next several years. Because I think fundamentally people have safety and predictability and if they feel like that the rates might come back down again. That's going to lead them to making some rough decisions as far as holding off and not moving. And that could have negative effect. So I think as much as we can get the message out that this is normal and it's probably going to stay this way, not, not that we all have a crystal ball or anything, right? But this is a very normal place and things are probably going to stay this way and helping to educate, particularly the next generation of home buyers. This is what it's supposed to be like. Yeah,
Derek Horton:
Absolutely
Nathan Whitworth:
Mean high. The housing prices haven't necessarily, at least in our local market, haven't necessarily dropped that much. No, I mean still
Derek Horton:
At all. Still fast, still fast, still moving
Nathan Whitworth:
Fast, still more. But that, that's because of Greenville generally speaking. But this is a very normal place to be and it's okay. So it's very cool to hear you say that cuz I haven't got a chance to talk to a lot of mortgage people about what we're seeing here.
Derek Horton:
And I think for realtors having the conversation, mortgage rates move up and down at some point they will come down. What I have a responsibility for is to make sure that my client and the realtor's client doesn't get into a pickle financially, but eventually they're going to buy, buy that house now. And that house is likely in our area going to appreciate and eventually rates are going to come down. So they're going to have equity in the property, they're going to be able to refinance very little cost. Most lenders advertise now, hey, they know rates are going to come down. So lenders are advertising, Hey, if you do loan with us, we're not going to charge you for the refinance. So yeah, you can refinance. So I think if you're in a position financially where you're comfortable buying a house waiting because interest rates is a mistake. And if I was a realtor, I would say that because in five years, here's what the house is going to cost. Even taking in just a more moderate approach
Nathan Whitworth:
And the historical what, 3% appreciation or
Derek Horton:
Whatever. And in five years interest rates might be here, but now you're paying this for the house. Whereas if you bought it then you could just refinance to a lower rate. And it's not for, listen, I'm not a lender that thinks everybody should be buying cuz everybody's not in a position to buy a hundred percent. Some people do need to rent and some people just so, but I think ultimately if you're going to buy waiting costs you
Nathan Whitworth:
Money. A hundred percent. And I like the idea that get in now, you will have options later. You have options later. But if you don't, you're probably going to, the biggest fear I have for most people is that if they choose to wait, their options become more and more limited. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's probably going to be true with what we see in our lo, at least for here in Greenville, South Carolina, what we see in our local market. I think that that's going to continue to be kind of a true thing. Yeah. You said something earlier that I really wanna touch on too. I think that there's a lot of, oftentimes people see lenders as a contentious or a confrontational relationship. Oh true. And it doesn't have to be that way. Can you kinda talk me through that for a second? Cuz what you were talking earlier and you mentioned the thing of we're working together to try to make sure this happens and we're here to protect both parties. It's not just about the lender protecting themselves. No, it's also about the borrower protect Yeah, yeah. Themselves too, right? Yeah. Can you talk me through that?
Derek Horton:
Yeah, absolutely. So you know, you've heard these terms before, but you're a trusted partner in the transaction or a trusted advisor to the client. And so I think it's critical that we wear suits at where I work and the old Deion Center adage, you look good, you feel good, you feel good, play good, you play good, they pay good, they pay you, they pay good. You live good. Yeah. So anyway, that's something we talk about and laugh about. And that can be sometimes people are like, oh, suits. You're not going to relate to people. But the lender and the client should be a very just close relationship and it should be a trusted partnership. The lender, they should never get the feeling that the lender doesn't want to help them buy a house ever. And if they get that feeling, they're, they're with the wrong lender. Right. Because
Nathan Whitworth:
It's in the lender's best interest to try to give you that loan. True. If all the things work out
Derek Horton:
True, and it's a lot of people's dreamed on home. And so I see myself as kind of an enabler of those dreams if it makes sense to help that client. And so there's nothing really more satisfying than helping someone who's never bought a house, get to a point of buying a house because there's no other tool in their belt that's going to add to their wealth like that.
A hundred percent. Because Americans don't save, they don't invest in the 401k. And I get it, stuff cost a lot of money. You got kids, you got bills, you don't have money to put aside, well you're going to buy a house and it's going to appreciate and there's people out there say, oh, you shouldn't buy a house, da da. Well that's the best tool. You've got a hundred percent to build wealth most people. And so helping people get to that point is a big deal and the good lenders still feel that as much as they did the first
Nathan Whitworth:
Transaction. How does it feel to get somebody to closing?
Derek Horton:
Oh, it's amazing. Especially somebody who's never owned a home who is maybe the first person in their entire family tree to own a home. And it happens all the time and it's a big deal. It's a big deal because it does change. The trajectory of it can change the whole trajectory of a family. The stability, not moving year to year in a rental knowing what your payment's going to be every month, not worrying about the landlord going up. It brings a lot of stability that I think people forget that how important the housing market is to our country.
Nathan Whitworth:
So that's awesome that I can't think of a better way to wrap that up, except do you have one piece of advice, something for agents, cuz we talked about a lot. I know we've covered a lot. We talked a lot. We talked a lot. Yeah. So do you have maybe a piece of advice, I wanna respect your time. Anything that you feel like every agent who's listening to this should know about either how to work with the lender in a better way or something for them to be able to carry on to do with their client that maybe they're not doing now? Yeah. What's one piece of advice,
Derek Horton:
I would say, and this is how we started I think that you're only as good as the people around you. So the amount of success you're going to have is impacted by your lending partner. And so choose it wisely. Don't be afraid to change it if you need to. Don't be afraid to, I hate to use the word interview but I got a call years ago from an agent who had just moved out of town and she said Hey, I wonder if we could grab coffee. I'm trying, I'm interviewing new lenders. And I was jokingly, I was like, well, I'll meet you for coffee but I'm not doing an interview. But I was joking with her, but what she was trying to say was, Hey, I wanna meet you and I wanna see if you're a good fit. A hundred percent. So be agents should be doing that. And I'm speaking from the lending side, but there's all kind of people that they work with through the process. Sure. So for example having good partners will make them or will break their
Nathan Whitworth:
Career. Man, I couldn't have said it better myself. So is and it's so true. I would say that probably the number one factor for success in this industry is having the resources and the people to connect your clients with and to support you like to, because there's man, especially for the new regions, there's so much that you don't know, you don't know, you don't know, you just don't know yet. And that's okay. You'll learn. But to put people around you who will support you through that process and who won't talk above you and help you through it and help you understand how everything works and how best to help the people that you wanna serve. Yeah. So well said.
Derek Horton:
Yeah. So you're just out there looking for a partner, a good partner to help you get the client the house that they want. Yeah.
Nathan Whitworth:
That's awesome man. So let everybody know where can they find you If they have any questions or they're wanting to take you to a coffee in an interview.
Derek Horton:
<laugh>, take me to a coffee. Yeah, actually I don't drink coffee. Take me to
Nathan Whitworth:
Get tea. Nice. Gotcha, gotcha.
Derek Horton:
I love chocolate, I love tea, I love basketball. If you want to entice me, those are the things. So at mortgages by Derek you can find me there on Instagram and TikTok and that's the easiest way just to message me there and I'll be happy to help and I'd love to connect with anybody buyers, realtors, happy to answer questions. That's awesome. Even if I'm not helping on the transaction.
Nathan Whitworth:
Man, this has been amazing. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Hey cuz this is really helpful information. I mean, we talked about everything from mortgages of social media. This is crazy. Yeah.
Derek Horton:
Fun time. Thank you for
Nathan Whitworth:
Having me. Yeah, you're welcome man. Guys, hopefully you took a few things away from this conversation. A few go golden nuggets that will help you build a better business and the life that you're trying to drive towards. Guys, have an amazing day and amazing week. We'll see you next time. Go out there and crush it so long. Hey everyone, thanks for listening. Hopefully this was really helpful to you in your journey of building a business. If you like what you heard, please click subscribe and go to iTunes and give us a rating that helps us out tremendously when we are producing hopefully content of huge value to you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it and I hope that you have an amazing week. Go out there and crush it. I'll see you soon.
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