Tammy Woodbury - Effective Social Media Posts To Grow Your Business - Elevate: A Podcast For Driven Real Estate Agents - Episode 1
Watch the Episode Here:
For our first episode of the new podcast we bring in Tammy Woodbury! She is a top producing agent from Anderson, SC. Tammy has been practicing real estate for nearly two decades and has lived in the Upstate of SC for nearly three. She founded a real estate team with her husband called The Clever People LLC in 2009 located in Anderson, SC. Having grown up in the Upstate, she knows a tremendous amount about how the surrounding towns feel as they each offer a different type of lifestyle and amenities. Tammy has earned two of the industry's highest accreditations: Certified Residential Specialist and Pricing Strategy Advisor
In This Episode We Cover:
How important and effective social media can be for growing a business.
Using social media to educate people on the finer points of real estate.
How video can help you rise above the noise and take your business farther faster.
Listen Along!
Read the Episode Here!
Hey everybody, welcome to Elevate. This is a podcast for driven real estate professionals. Guys, we're here to help you with your business and to try to elevate where you are from, where you are to where you're going. And I am so excited to be here today with Tammy Woodbury with the Clever People EXP. How you doing Tammy?
Tammy Woodbury (00:33):
I'm great. Thanks so for having me here today.
Nathan Whitworth (00:34):
Of course. So I gotta tell you, I wanna start off before we ask you who you are and what you do I gotta tell you that I've been having a lot of conversations with a lot of people in our local market. A lot of your name keeps coming up over and over and over. And so when we were kind of doing a little bit of research and trying to figure out who we wanna have on and who we want to have interview, you were at the top of the list. So I was really excited that we could set this up. I really appreciate you coming in and sharing what you've experienced so far. I think that this interview's gonna have, it's gonna really help a lot of people.
Tammy Woodbury (01:05):
No, I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much. And I really appreciate that. That's very, very kind. <laugh>.
Nathan Whitworth (01:10):
So tell us about Tammy.
Tammy Woodbury (01:11):
Yeah, so I've been selling real estate for 19 years now. I started when I was six. Not really obviously long time, but I have been doing this for a little while now. I started in a hot market, didn't know what I was doing. Too bad. I could have made money if I knew what I was doing. And then I kept through a recession. That was exciting. My husband also got into business at that time as well. I guess he was just a glutton for punishment, <laugh>. And then it was stable. And then we had all this crazy post pandemic market. So I've kind of been through all different types of markets, but like I said, been doing this for 19 years now. My husband's my partner. We have a team of agents that are really, really awesome. We kinda operate in the whole upstate, so think lakes, go tigers, Greenville, but still Anderson is where we live. And then we have kids and the cutest dog on the planet. And my husband complains because she was free from the animal shelter, but she has special allergies. She just had a $2,500 knee surgery. She's the most expensive thing on the planet <laugh>. So she takes up my little bit of free time that I have. She is my hobby and that's pretty much where my life
Nathan Whitworth (02:10):
Has been. That's very cool. Long time in the industry. A long time in an industry where that's not common to be in the industry for a long time. I'm just kinda curious before we start, and I know I didn't even set you up for this, but what's probably been the thing that's kept you doing this for so long? I mean, you obviously have a passion for real estate. You can see it in your videos if you guys, And what's your Instagram handle
Tammy Woodbury (02:31):
At Tammy underscore Woodbury underscore realtor.
Nathan Whitworth (02:35):
Yeah.
Tammy Woodbury (02:35):
It's so hard for me to think, I don't know, where am I? It's the same everywhere. It's
Nathan Whitworth (02:40):
Okay. So obvious when you go visit your page, the way you talk about real estate, there's obviously not only an authority to it, but there's also a huge passion behind it. So for you, why be in real estate? Why be an agent? Why do what you do?
Tammy Woodbury (02:54):
So I hate people say this thing about anything because it sounds so generic. But I really do love helping people. My husband laughs even on a different level. If I know that someone's looking for a job, I'm like, I bet I can help you find it. Cause I know people and I can connect you. And so I think one thing I saw about real estate, it's an amazing platform to help people really understand what wealth looks like. If you follow Dave Ramsey, any of these great teachers on financials, you don't have to have been given a million dollars from your family. You make the right real estate choices and the right real estate choices are conservative and you do it over your life. You create wealth that sets you up into retirement, a legacy for your children. And most people are not taught that. Or let's say you go through something in your life and you need cash, your home is actually a piggy bank.
(03:37):
This is a small story and I know you didn't ask for a story yet, but last year, no this is great with covid that lots of people would sell their homes and they were trying to cash out. And there was this one family that came to me and they were super stressed. They were gonna have to leave our town. They were going to a different state for a job and they were like, we got settled. And they were looking for any silver lining, anything. I said, Here's a silver lining. You were really smart with four real estate transactions up to this point in your life. You were cashing out $225,000. You're gonna have a nest egg when you go where you're gonna have a home. You're gonna pay off new debt you had and you were gonna set yourself ahead. And they're like, I don't know how we didn't process that.
(04:11):
But if they didn't own homes their whole life and they were like 42 they would never have had that opportunity to be able to do what they were able to do with that money. And one other little story, I had this girl last year, she bought a home, she actually lived in Greenville, sorry, worked in Greenville and wanted to live in Anderson, which was a little far from me. And she's a single mom and I thought, I don't know how she's gonna do this. She has to be at work at 8:00 AM school, all these things. But she does it. So anyway, she calls me a year later and she says, Tammy, I feel like a loser. I can't do this home ownership thing. I'm like, Is everything okay? I'm like, Are the bill's okay? And she's like, No, no, I'm doing it fine. But the commute's too hard.
(04:42):
And I know you tried to talk me out of it, but it really is. She's like, I just wish I could have done better. So I need to go ahead and sell my home. I said, Listen, you won. If you'd been renting this whole year, you would have nothing to show for it. But she was gonna walk away and she did with $18,000. What else could she have done for what most people consider a salary? That's right. In a year's time. So when I started really understanding what real estate meant, I became super excited about showing people how they can change their lives with their homes and also it's lifestyle for us, it's security. So many things associated with our home. And to be a part of that is pretty incredible.
Nathan Whitworth (05:11):
I've been on this kick lately where I've been telling a lot of people when it comes to building a business, fundamentally one of the biggest things you gotta consider is you have to, the value that you're kind of bringing to the table has to exceed the price that you're asking people to pay. Right? And what you're bringing to the table is massive. And we talk a lot of times about educating and social media and doing those kind of things, which you're really, really good at and I wanna get to that. But those are very solid examples of how when you're meeting with new clients and when you're helping them through the journey of buying and selling real estate that you're able to offer a perspective that they don't have otherwise. Right? Yeah, I was a high school educator for 10 years. I was actually in the building in the room. I know what's not taught in school and financial literacy, financial education, it's not taught at all. And so it's huge for you to be able to help people in that way. And that's awesome. Alright, so let's get back to you and the clever people. <affirmative>. I'm just curious, 19 years long time. Kind of take me through the 19 years probably. If you could boil it down into just a few very actionable things that could help people. What's been really central to the growth of your business?
Tammy Woodbury (06:19):
So it's funny, you used the word actionable and and I talked about this privately not too long ago, <affirmative>. But one of the most powerful things I ever learned when I was getting into real estate. And this is an industry that's so old and it's always changing. There's a lot of things that are pillars that are true, but there's a lot of things that are just always just, they're never the same. Okay, I'll come back to that in a second. But the best thing I ever learned that was so powerful is you don't have to get everything. But when you learn something and you should be learning something on a daily basis, you need to implement it within 60 seconds. So let's say you go and watch something and there are 15 things you can do for building a reel or 15 things for a video or 15 ways to connect with people or 15 types of letters you can send out.
(06:56):
You won't do all of 'em and you won't get it right. But do one thing and do it within 60 seconds, even if it's just writing the script for it or getting it prepared because that lends itself to other actions. And then what we see is, oh, I had success when I didn't even know what I was doing. So now that I have had success, I wanna really dig in here <laugh>. So that's been huge too. Don't be afraid to change. I think about this all the time. In fact, one of our core values is always innovate. And the reason we're the clever people, it's twofold. But one of the reason is we always want to innovate. Because what I know is when you look at all these big brands, how many big brands did you know of that dominated for years? And then you're like, wait, I forgot they were a big brand.
(07:32):
Where did they go? Blockbuster. They laughed when Netflix showed up and said, Hey, do you wanna know what we're doing? You can have a part of this. And they were like, No, we're the big guys and we know what's going on. And what are you with your weird idea. And now Netflix is teaching everybody in their, How many streaming services are there now? Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm on peacock tv, I'm on everything. I'm like, I don't do, can I afford another subscription? I don't know if I've got 45 now. Right? And they led the way because they were willing to do something different. So I think the other big thing is not being afraid to try different things in this industry. We are growing. We are changing. People's needs are changing. And I think when you understand that your job is not to sell a house, House to sell themselves, I cannot sell you a 12 bedroom home if you don't want it. That's right. I can't show you a shack if you don't want it. That's right. The home is gonna sell itself all by itself. But what I can do is learn as a consumer what it is you want. What is your pain point? And that shifts in every market. Even right now, the number one buyer we have are millennials. Millennials are different.
Nathan Whitworth (08:25):
That's right. They car.
Tammy Woodbury (08:25):
That's right. What they want is different. What they see is different. What they need is different. So you have to understand what do consumers want, What do they need to learn? How does it need to be fed to them? What way does it need to be presented to them? And you can't be afraid to change just because you've always done something. And then my third thing, which is really leans into that every single day with every single thing you do, always ask, why are you doing it? Because you've always done it. <laugh> good. That's so good. Are you doing it cause it's serving a purpose or are you doing it for your ego? Why are you doing it? And if you can't answer it with a really powerful answer, don't do it anymore. That's right. Or put it on
Nathan Whitworth (08:58):
Ice. Right. So there's so much to unpack there. That was fantastic. That was really good. To your last point, which I think is so important there. It is funny that when I see people who are starting businesses, they're very confused on what the next step should be. And that's often because they just don't, they're not doing things for the right reasons. They're not being self-reflective enough. They're not thinking to themselves, Hey I'm gonna test this thing, but let me test it in a very methodical way. Let me see what happens. And then let me see, okay, if did that work, did that not work? If it worked, how do I double down on that and do it better If it didn't work, what do we need to change in order to do it better? Right? And to me building a business, there is some art there.
(09:40):
I'm sure it's also, it's very much a science, right? And I think that's really what you're pushing for here in a lot of ways. And I think that's so smart. I also think that the other thing that you were talking about is take action. Yeah, just do. Right. So I'm curious what you would say about this. Cause I feel like for so many people they have to achieve a level of perfection before they feel comfortable. They have to know everything about that thing. <affirmative> for instance, we're about to get really dig into social media for so many people. They're like, I really gotta know everything there is to know about creating the most perfect reel before I won't feel comfortable going actually creating a reel. Right? Yeah. Speak to that for a second. How do you break through that tension that a lot of people feel and that need that a lot of people feel to be perfect at something before they feel comfortable putting it out in the
Tammy Woodbury (10:21):
World? So I love answering this cuz everyone, their first thing is always, I don't know enough about the industry and I don't know enough about social media or anything, right? And so I love to give this example. There was a girl on our team a few years ago she had bought and sold real estate and she was married and not that means anything, but she was married. And so she and her husband had done these things together, <affirmative>. And she gets into real estate and as we're talking through things, even though she went through real estate school, which honestly doesn't teach you anything about real estate itself, but she had, and we're talking one day and she says to me, How does the buyer agent get paid and when do they cut the check for them? And I thought, how does an agent who's also bought and sold real estate not knowing and then she goes on to reveal that her husband said it had been worked out, which he knew what it meant.
(11:05):
Which is weird, they never really discussed it. But when on her other two homes that they had sold and purchased, she kept waiting for the buyer agent to say, I need a check. And she was like, I hope we have enough money to pay them. This is awkward. I don't wanna ask what that fee. So I say to all these people who are like, We don't know enough. I'm like, she'd bought and sold real estate twice and she went to real estate school and she didn't know anything about it. So whatever that you learn from watching your four minute YouTube video is more than most consumers <laugh>. So have confidence put it out there. And it had to be a 20 minute video. If you're nervous, do a pretty house in the background. Have seven seconds. I tell our team all the time, I want you to stay in the mirror.
(11:43):
And if you turn four shades of bread when you record, I want you to be timing how many seconds before you turn four shades of bread. You need to have that many words until you get there and then flip the camera. That's it. And the rest of it can be text overlay for all I care. But just start. And it doesn't have to be a big topic. It can be three words. It could be a carousel where nobody can put you on the spot and ask you further questions and they'll say, Slide in your DM and then go find somebody who knows the answers at that point.
Nathan Whitworth (12:06):
That's right. And I tell people all the time, it's okay to say I will get back to you. Yes. Asap. Yes. Go find the answer Right then don't wait around cuz you'll forget. Right? If you're like, Hey, I'll do that thing tonight and I'll get back to him tomorrow. Don't do that. Yeah. Because you'll probably forget. You'll probably be overloaded with other things. Find out the answer and then get back to 'em immediately. That's how you build trust and credibility even if you don't have to know everything, which I think is such a big issue and such a big mistake most people make. Yep. You don't have to know everything, you just have to know. I heard this thing one time that I just wanna share and I think it's really good, is that you are most uniquely positioned to help other people who was your former self <affirmative>. So if you were to think back in just the past year, two years, the things that you didn't know, the other people need help with that thing and you can help them through that. That's such great piece of advice. So awesome. I love that. All right, so talk to me about social media. How with the clever people with your businesses, how has social media kind of fit into your overall marketing strategy? How do you think about
Tammy Woodbury (13:02):
It? Yeah, so for me, social media is a pillar of your business. It's as important as anything else you do. And I think what I've seen for the majority of people in our industry, kind of any industry, it's just another thing that can exist and should exist. But to me it is honestly the most important thing that you do every single day with consistency because it's your brand, it's who you are, it's what you offer. It's funny, when you start any sort of business and you're doing any sort of meeting with a business coach, they'll say to you, What do you do that's different from everybody else? And then honestly, if you're being real transparent in real estate, I mean what do you do that's different. Unlock door. That's right. Everybody unlocks the door. <laugh>. Got it. Okay. Well you can get information online that they can't find.
(13:38):
So can every other agent, right? That's not special. You can do. Okay, what? Well, what can you do? Okay, well what you do that's different is you educate, right? You help them understand different ways of doing things, of different ways of negotiating, different ways of succeeding, different ways of making more money, different ways of whatever that is that they want. So you identify their pain points and then you put this out on social media and what sets you apart from everybody else. And the reason you need to do this day in and day out is you are showing the world what it is that you do that's different from the competition. And here's the thing, it's not even that you're competing against anyone. You are basically creating, what I tell people is called your client avatar. And this is revolutionary because when I got into real estate, we had dial up internet.
(14:16):
It was outrageous that I survived like the prehistoric age. And so we didn't have this ability, you had to buy a billboard of magazines and that's how people knew you were in business for one thing. So you basically go bankrupt out the gate with all this stuff. But two, and this isn't good or bad, this is just a thing you were gonna take on any client who would call you, you're so grateful. But think about this. Let's say you're highly analytical and then an engineer calls you and you love it. You guys are best friends forever. That's your sweet spot. But let's say that you're more of an expressive person. That engineer doesn't like you as much and you feel a lot of pressure with them because the questions are asking you. You are not programmed to think like that. Now can you learn that?
(14:53):
Absolutely. Can you grow? Yes. But they're not natural for you. So when you have a business where you're just waiting for your phone to ring, you don't know who you're gonna get. But when you are on social media educating, I talk the way I talk because I am who I am and the people who who I am are drawn to me. Cuz people use people they know and trust. So when I'm consistently offering information to the public and I'm teaching them one, they kind of like me more now and they definitely trust me. And people wanna use people they know and trust. Well, they feel like they know me because they've seen me all the time. It's true. And really beyond that, it's the people who are gonna call me, the ones who like me anyway, the ones are like, I don't really like her voice or the way she talks.
(15:29):
They're not calling me. And that's okay. So there's more joy in my business. I have inadvertently or now inadvertently cuz I know what I'm doing now is I'm targeting my ideal client and I'm calling them into me even so much to a point when we talk about how much of this is a part of your business. A few years ago I had a 46th ratio of sellers to buyers. But at that time, when I say 60% buyers, I had 40 active buyers. My total buyer account, I remember looking at my spreadsheet was 82, but there were 40 people, if I could find 'em at home that day they were writing a contract. Even if 40 people only wanna see one home one day a week, how many hours that is in a car, It was crushing. Even if you have a partner agent who cares?
(16:09):
It's crushing. So at that point I thought, I really wanna shift my ratio cuz you do have a little bit more control over your schedule with sellers and I really wanna be more seller friendly. And I realized inadvertently because honestly it's low hanging fruit, all of my content was very buyer related. So I was like, I'm just gonna test this for a little while. I'm not gonna talk about buyers or buying or interest rates or how to do it or smart way or how do you look at home? I can talk about that anymore. I'm just gonna talk about seller stuff. And my business overnight flipped to switch. Interesting. Almost all sellers. And so the point with this is, the reason I say that it's so powerful and we use it every single day on our team and I use it in my own business all the time, is you control your business with your presence online.
(16:45):
You control the client you're gonna have, you control the paycheck you have, you control the type of earning potential you're gonna have, whether you're focusing on luxury, whether you're focusing on first time home buyers, whether you're focusing on investors. When you create a cadence and you're consistent, those people know and they tell people about you. It is a daily call that I get that someone will call me to say, Come list my home or let me work with you as a buyer. And I'll say, Hey, how did you get my information? Oh, I've been following you for years on social media and I'll go back and look and I'm like, I don't know these people. Sure enough they are. And they'll tell me when we're together, Oh, I know what you're gonna say about getting my home ready. I've watched those four videos and they will recite to me their next steps.
(17:20):
My job is so easy, <laugh> not having a weird, awkward conversation because on video, guess what? You're on the offense. You're not on the defense. Yeah. You're not awkwardly telling them their home smells like four dogs. You don't have to do that. You talked about it. I have a dog and I told the sad story of my dog and all the things I did to my house to de dog proof smelling it. And so they know. And so they're not offend. Our house smells like a dog. We know it smells like a dog, but we saw what we need to do and we're willing to do that. Awesome. So it makes your whole job easier too. So when you're like, how do we use it every single day we use it, we do different things with it. Sometimes carousel perform, well cool, use a carousel. Sometimes it's a real cuz you want 'em to see a funny side of you or read something easy. Sometimes it's a longer form video, sometimes it's a home tour. You can do whatever strategy you want. But the point is just use it. Use it every day. It's the most important thing you do if you run outta time for other stuff, don't run outta time for your presence online. Oh gosh,
Nathan Whitworth (18:07):
There's so much to talk about. So first off, the first question I have in my head, you're talking about making your job easier. When you started really leveraging the power of social media, I'm just curious, when you shifted from talking to buyers to talking to sellers, what did those listing appointments look like when you walked in? You talk about making your job easier. I'm just curious how were you received any differently when you were having those, when you sit across the table and you were going through those, your natural pitch, what you're talking about and how you're showing them how you're gonna help 'em, those kind of things. How did that change? Talk to me about that. Yeah,
Tammy Woodbury (18:37):
It was a ton because honestly I go back to they feel like they trust you when you go into a listing presentation blind, or even if your grandma's cousin told them about you, they don't know you yet. So one, you, there's a natural amount as an agent of trepidation and you don't know how free you are to be honest about the market, the price, their home, what it needs. Because you don't wanna offend them either. This is their baby, this is their home, they leave their spouses or their family whomever every day to go make money to pay for this puppy. And you're gonna come in here with on your shining horse and tell 'em what they need to do. And maybe they don't like those things. So when you have been building this equity with them online that you are not even aware that you're building and they're watching, they're hearing these things and when you come in they feel like, I think she knows what she's doing already.
(19:20):
And so I just trust her and they bring up things from the videos and they're like, So does this apply to us as well? And I'm like, Hey, that's a really good question. I'm so glad that you brought that up. Yeah, that is a general statement, but let's talk about how that works out for your home. They ask me, they open up the door for me to have awkward conversations and then they're just ready to hear it. So when I say it has changed how those presentations go, all of the stuff I used to have to do the dog and pony show, I still have things I put together. But my presentations look very different now because when I come in, even if it's like they didn't see my video, their cousin that told them about me, told them about the four things I said in this video all the time when I will trace back, it will be someone shared or tagged a video of me and tagged them in it.
(19:59):
And they watched it and that's why they end up calling me. I had a girl I met with last night, I ended up selling her home this past year. And actually when she called me out, she said that she was gonna list with her friend who had gotten in real estate, really close friend. And she's like, But I just have been watching too much of your stuff and I feel like I might be making a mistake. If not, can I ask you about four things you said in your video? And she asked you about him. And as I expound upon him, I didn't have to convince her on pricing or that I was the best agent. She said, I feel like I love my friend. It's gonna be a hard conversation, but I feel like I would leave money on the table if I didn't use you. So I didn't have to picture on anything when I came in, I was like, Hey, don't even tell me who your friend is. I don't even wanna know who they are. Right. I don't wanna feel like it's a competition. But let me just answer your questions.
Nathan Whitworth (20:39):
I mean, guess if you were to say this to any other agent that's listened to this right now you're basically saying, Hey, do you wanna know how to be able to go to your listing listing appointment and basically pull out the contract and just have it signed? Yeah. Right. That's what you're saying, right? Yes. Cause I know so many agents who talking about the dog and pony show, like man, they get so nervous. Cuz you're right, one of the biggest challenges I see of agents is when they walk into any meeting, no matter what it's for, no matter what it is, they're always thinking themselves, How do I not offend this person? How do I not make this person feel uncomfortable? How do I not tell this person what they don't want to hear? Right? But if you've done that work and you've leveraged that time and you've leveraged social media to get that information out there, it makes everything so much easier when you walk into that appointment.
(21:20):
I'm so glad that you said that and I think that's so true. Okay, so I think this gets into our next thing which I need. I think this is a huge misconception in my head when most people are approaching social media, no matter what industry they're in, no matter what kind of a business they have, it's the idea of lead generation versus lead nurturing <affirmative>. Most people think that they're doing lead generation when in reality it's lead nurturing. Can you kind of talk to me about your philosophy on this? How do you think about this? How do you approach it?
Tammy Woodbury (21:48):
So when I say the word nurture, the first two images that come to my mind, it might be different for someone else, but I think of a mom and a baby. Sorry. I mean I can think of a dad.
Nathan Whitworth (21:55):
No, no, it's not offended. Okay,
Tammy Woodbury (21:57):
<laugh>, I think of a mom and a baby and when you think of a mom nurturing, what do they do? They feed the baby, they hug the baby, they care for the baby, they bathe the baby, they change the baby's diaper. The baby does nothing for them. They just nurture the baby. They do good things for the baby. That's it, right? And social media is nurturing. There will be generation that wait, that's not lead generation as a result of that. But the nurturing is all you're focused on. You will get the business but do not do it because you think you're gonna get a call from it. Again, it follows your whole goal is not to say, please call me to come seller her, buy your home or whatever. That's not the goal. Please don't say that in your video. If you wanna stick it into a caption way at the bottom, they're probably never gonna scroll to means do that. Right. But your goal is to give to nurture, to get them to take a next step in their thought process. Yes. That's the only goal. And I think that when people realize that their goal is to give and not to receive, that's also received by the public and then they wanna work
Nathan Whitworth (22:52):
With you. Yeah. I heard this thing one time that if you're giving with the intention of receiving, that's not giving, that's not fundamentally what that is. You're giving with no intention of getting anything out of it. That's through giving. Yeah. I think people can sense that too. Yeah, you're right. You mentioned when you came in that what you've seen people do often is basically throw up a business card. They're basically taking a billboard and they're putting it on their social profile. I wanna get a little tactical here, right? Cause this is essentially what you're talking about. You're talking about the nature of lead nurturing and you're basically telling people, Hey, don't ask for the sale. Right? And I think there's a Gary Vaynerchuck thing where it's like was it punch, punch, punch, right? Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab. That's right. Jab, jab. Yeah, it's the same thing.
(23:34):
And that's essentially what we're talking about here. You're maybe even proposing not even throw that right hook for a good while, right? <affirmative>, <affirmative> you. Let's get in the weeds. Let's get a little tactical with it just for a second. When it comes to getting those posts out there, you mentioned earlier care sales, if it's working, make it work. It's cool. <affirmative>, if you're doing a post with a photo, do that. Moving into video, if you're trying to do reels and do those kind of things like test and see how that goes, right? <affirmative> for you, what are you focused on right now in your business? What are you trying to do more of? What are you trying to get better at <affirmative>? What do you see sticking more than others?
Tammy Woodbury (24:10):
The statistics. Whoa, statistics. Luper reel say video. And actually I'm not even gonna try to tell my percentage cuz you're a video guy. So you will say that if you want to. But the percentage of the people who respond to video is outrageous right now. And this is what I tell my team. So if the world of real estate, there are so many different ways you can get business. Maybe you can do a mass mailer to a subdivision, but you're gonna sit by your phone and hope that it rings at some point, right? There's all kinds of things you can drop off business card places, you can go to a networking event, you can do all these things. But if I am sitting and waiting, for instance, I did a mailer for a different reason several months ago and I'm surprised this guy kept it.
(24:48):
And then his neighbor who lived outta state called me about whatever it was six months after I sent that. If I was sitting waiting on that call, I would starve to death. And so what we tell our team is right now, real estate is a contact sport. So it's as much contacting as you can do as quickly as possible. Video delivers that really quick, very intense, gets people to respond, gets people to engage. Everything else is just so slow and honestly outdated. And so when we think about what works the best carousel, the algorithm does like them, but a lot of the other stuff, unless you really nail it it doesn't perform as well online. So you're just slowing your results. So if you get really, really good with reels and you're trending audio and you nail your hashtags, you got the waterfall strategy down, if that doesn't mean anything to you, then don't worry about it then That is not where you're gonna go right now <affirmative>. But if you do, then kill that. And if you have really figured out your carousel post and how to do really good click bait, go with that. But if you can really put yourself out there on video and say and do all those things that happen in both of those and hashtag and do all that, you've got the most traction. It's super quick. Here's always my thought process. We only have, what is that quote? I have the same 24 hours in my day as Beyonce does. And she's the queen
Nathan Whitworth (26:02):
<laugh> so good.
Tammy Woodbury (26:03):
But you have to use those hours well, so for me it's like why would I spend two hours doing a mailer if I know I just pick up the phone and call 12 people and one of 'em is gonna say yes to me. So that's how video is <affirmative>. I wanna figure that out because I could do all this other stuff, but it's just kind of slow. And so we've gotta create momentum in our businesses. How do we help more people faster? Well, we've gotta get in front of
Nathan Whitworth (26:20):
'em. So well said. When you, let's talk about video. Let's kind of hang out there for just a second. What kind of video are you doing? What do you enjoy working on right now when it does come to video? Are you doing the talking head educational videos? Are you trying to be more creative of what you're doing in the homes when you're doing the tours? Are you trying to give more behind the scenes kind of footage of what's the daily, what the daily going ons at the clever people is like, what are you trying to get out there?
Tammy Woodbury (26:48):
Yeah that's a great question. So I think one educational is the biggest component because those are the things you'll see me running in the background. And maybe you see a caption, you're like, Jamie's doing another real estate video and that's fine even if you just don't watch it because at least what I'm doing is I'm creating an impression that I sell real estate without staying
Nathan Whitworth (27:05):
Top
Tammy Woodbury (27:05):
Of mind. I sell real estate. I read recently that you're supposed to have 30 touch points with your sphere. First of all, I don't know that I could have 30 touch points with anybody, my husband, that's a lot. And we live in the same house. And so if you're out there at least rolling with this and your algorithm strong, at least they're seeing that and they don't forget what you do. But then if you are in of the mindset that you wanna buy or sell, then you're a sponge for all this stuff because you're ready. And so that information is very, very valuable to you. So that's why I wanna put that out. Home tours, honestly, that's just high end click bait. But for my home tours, I want them to be different. You know, see people have cool images and I like all that too.
(27:42):
But what we're really trying to do for a buyer that's different right now is I meet with some sellers and it's very true. And for years we would have to say sorry, it doesn't matter. Let's say there's three homes in the same subdivision, the other two are mostly identical. And so honestly, this third home that you're about to put on the market, it should be priced the same price as the others. Cuz it's kind of the same thing. But the seller when they talk to you, Yeah, but well there are a lot was 0.46, but mine's 0.52 of an acre and their home was 1746 square feet, but mine's like 1850. And then they had a chain link fence, but I had a privacy fence <affirmative>. And so we know as a buyer doesn't care, it's not really worth anything. And we comp it out, it doesn't mean anything.
(28:19):
But when you do a video and you start talking about lifestyle and what this seller invested in and the type of privacy fence that's there and you don't see your neighbors around anywhere and a lot of people can see their neighbors in here, but not you and you know, have the biggest thought in the subdivision things that people will scroll past remarks that they don't create value. Now you've created value for the buyer, you've better insulated your seller, but also you've created value for the buyer. Maybe they were gonna scroll past that home before and they're like, Oh I never thought about that. That is, that's in the school system. We wanna be, and it's our budget. It's the only home that backs up to the woods. All the others, back up to other people, all right, we said we don't wanna live there cuz they're on top of each other, but this one's not, let's go take a look at it. So you're just opening people's eyes to things that are not so obvious to them. And that is the purpose I think, of a home tour video, at least the way that we use it. So those are the two large ways we use it. Don't really do behind the scenes too much. But I don't know what it would cost for you to follow me around <laugh>. I don't think I could afford you for that
Nathan Whitworth (29:07):
<laugh>. So
Tammy Woodbury (29:08):
I haven't figured that out yet. But that'd be a really cool thing to do too.
Nathan Whitworth (29:11):
Yeah. Well I want to, you were mentioning this, you were talking about this in your response, you didn't outright say it though. I think you're very good at storytelling, even during this conversation, you've given me probably a good four or five stories that really drive home the point that you're trying to make. And you're talking about the differences between the homes, the differences between the fences, <affirmative>, the facts, nobody cares, <affirmative>, the stories people care about very much, right? So I'm curious how you approach your listings and how do you approach the information that you're giving out there on social media? How do you approach it from more of a story based idea?
Tammy Woodbury (29:49):
Yeah, so I wanna tell a story all the time because the reality is if I start talking you about supply and demand and all this stuff, you're, I feel like I should know what that is. We talk about that in the eighth grade and then if you're real brain what it means. But then everybody else is like, but I don't understand tactically what that means. Let's just scroll past it. But when I tell you about a story of somebody's broom and how somebody paid an extra $45 for a broom cuz it was the last one in the store and there at all this stuff that had happened downtown and they were trying to help this little old lady and you understood that they paid an extra $45 for a room that it wasn't worth cuz it was the only one in the store. I get supply and demand now a hundred percent.
(30:21):
And so anytime you can tell a story, it just helps people relate. And I think that's the biggest thing. We talk about our goal as agents to find a person's pain point, but when you put it in big principles, they don't understand when you're like the interest rate has gone up. I don't know what that means. Hey, it's gone down. I don't know what that means when you say, hey. So I'll tell you a story. I was with a girl last week and there was a mortgage, this is exactly what happened. And she was approved for a lot of money, but to keep her payments where she wanted to, she needed to shop at 165,000 and that's her payment. And we would look at the homes that were 165 and honestly they weren't nice and she just didn't feel safe in them, meaning she thought she was gonna place the roof and just a lot of issues with them.
(30:54):
So I was talking to her and I'm like, hey, let's talk a little bit about your mortgage. So you have a mortgage that looks like this, but there's a bank out there that has no money down and no pmi. And so we could actually push your budget up 20 grand, but your payments stay exactly the same. That's how you tell 'em about that mortgage a hundred percent. Because all of a sudden now she's like, wait, my payments won't change. And guess what? We found our home $20,000 higher in price. And so when you give those examples and people are like, wait, so there's a loan out there that does what? I don't have to say no money down, no pmi, who knows what that means? Nobody, you put that in the bottom in case somebody wonders if there's like a catch, but you tell that story and they're like, Can you tell me about that? What is that? So we use stories so people can align themselves with that because usually they're gonna understand when someone's like them. And the reality is there's so many stories that are so similar. People realize that we're all the same people, we all have the same misconceptions, we all have the same checking accounts at some point in our lives. And so we're all gonna go through the same thing. So if you figure out these stories and you share those stories and people relate,
Nathan Whitworth (31:46):
I so well said. So well said. And I think that the last thing that you just said is also really important, which is take the time to figure them out. <affirmative>, that's really important cuz I can see a lot of people watching this right now are listening to this right now and they're thinking to themselves, I'm just not a good storyteller. I'm not good at it. Being a good storyteller is a skill and any skill you can improve <affirmative>. And it really is just this it, it's this center point between spending enough time on it and then kind of intentionally working on things. When you do those two things together, time versus energy, you get better. And I think that so many people just kind of dismiss. They're like, Well that Tammy, that's awesome for Tammy cuz Tammy's great at it. She's an amazing storyteller.
(32:27):
I spend all time, I went and got drinks with her last night and she's telling me stories about how her week went. She's a great storyteller, but there's so many other people out there who don't think that they can do that. But that's not true. They very much can do that. And I would argue that any person who's in sales of any kind, which is what this industry is in some respects, it really does come down to how good of a storyteller you can be when you get into those appointments. So I'm so glad that you mentioned that and I'm so glad you talked about that. I'm curious what you're gonna say about this. We had a conversation about this kind of last week, which is when it comes to social media, when it comes to on your online presence. And then really this doesn't have to just be social media, this could be everything, your website, your Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, the videos you're producing, the visual content from the graphics that you probably made in can and then threw up there.
(33:17):
<affirmative>, What does it mean to build an online reputation? What does it mean to you? I usually think of it creating a digital fingerprint of who you are in real life. Cuz that is definitely something that I have a lot of trouble with. I will be introduced to a person online through their online content and then I meet them in real life and I'm like, oh wait, that's not <laugh> not the same person. And I think that you always want to have, obviously online you wanna prevent present your most professional front. Of course everybody does. That's not a bad thing. But what I'm suggesting is if the nature of your content online doesn't align with kind of who you are, how you normally act, how you normally talk online, then there's obviously a big problem there, right? <affirmative>, do you think about that or is that something that you're kind of in the mode of considering right now?
Tammy Woodbury (34:05):
That's such a great question. So for me personally I've always thought it's just easier to be me and they're gonna meet me at some point, so better be me. So that was easy for me to say. But when I talked to our team members for then they were like, okay, fine, but I feel uncomfortable. And so I was at a conference a couple years ago and I told them this story where there were three really lead video people at the time with channels, with a, I don't even know what a huge following it was more than a hundred thousand followers.
Nathan Whitworth (34:32):
Big
Tammy Woodbury (34:32):
Followings. Big followings, way more than my four <affirmative> kind of thing. And some that were these two females that were highly dynamic and they're funny and they're just easy to watch. And then there was this guy, and I almost wanna say his name cause I want everyone to follow him, but he was real dry, kind of serious and a little jittery on the stage. And he said, Here's what I want you to know. He's, my content is not nearly as dynamic of them, but then they pull up his page, thousands of followers, tons of comments, and almost all of his business, which is very lucrative from his YouTube video channel in his other forums. But this is the point that he made. Everybody has people who like them more and they follow you. Yes. And then when people, it doesn't matter how great even your content is, I mean he had good information, but just to have that same pizazz.
(35:15):
Yes. But he said, But when they're really wanting to buy or sell, they're gonna dive in, they're gonna watch your playlist, they're binge watching something, right? Yes. And if you're the voice that they like to hear and they consume content the way you present it, then that's gonna appeal to them. So for me, my thing is be authentic to myself. Make it consistent because whether I'm him or them, those two women I am, me and those people that I want to work with me will. And so as long as I'm the same person every place, I'd rather be unpolished and be the same person than for it to be perfect. I'm late to my videos, I've had videos before alarms go off and I didn't have my do not disturb on, I'm tardy Tammy. Nobody was shocked. And I'm like, I gotta go to appointment, sorry, point number four tomorrow. Bye. Nobody who knows me. I get text messages immediately. That is the most you think I've ever seen. I'm like, well real life, that's what it
Nathan Whitworth (36:01):
Is. And it becomes enduring, right? Yeah. It's actually one of those things that, yeah, it's so true. And it's funny because when you talk, I heard it say this, Pepsi and Coke, whether you like Pepsi, whether you like Coke, it's rev subjective at the end of the day, they're both great. And as a small business owner of any sorts, and again any industry cuz social media, this applies to anybody and everybody. But at the end of the day, most people, I think the issue that most people have when they're starting out with social media is that they feel like there's a right and a wrong and there's not <affirmative>. Right? <affirmative> and making sure that you is an alignment and presented in a professional way of course, but presented in a professional way, you're gonna find the audience who resonates with you, right? And those are the people you wanna work with anyway.
(36:45):
That's right. That's the thing, right? That's right. You don't wanna work with somebody who doesn't align with what you believe and what you value and what you love. You wanna work with those people. That resonates with us. So I think that's awesome. Alright, so talk to me just a little bit about the market right now. We're gonna kind of move away from social media a little bit. Talk to me about how are you guys and your team and the clever people, how are you helping people through what is a very scary time for the average kind of home buyer, home seller,
Tammy Woodbury (37:18):
<affirmative>, <affirmative>? So you kind of already told my story for me. So one you said, not talk about social media, but one that is a big thing. I told our team we're in this because we're gonna combat the headlines. You know probably have heard this, but media is designed to terrify, not clarify, also talk about the fed rate went up and they say it cuz they want you to be, the interest rate went up, they're not the same thing. So time I hear that line, the fed rate went up, I'm like, All right guys, let's talk about the fed rate, let's talk about the interest rate, let's talk about all these things and what they really mean. And let's also talk about the truth of what the Mortgage Bankers Association said. Who cares who they are? But the bottom line is your rate's not gonna change for this year.
(37:51):
That's what you need to hear from me. Or by the way, do you know the market slowed a little bit right now? Sellers are paying closing costs. What if you got them to buy down your interest rate? Then you know what, bam, you've got last year's interest rate right now because you got them to do it. So getting that information out there is still where we're hyperfocused right now. Because when people hear anything on the news, whether it was pre covid, now they're just taking the headlines. The number of people who report back to me, there's a housing crisis, foreclosures are terrible, they're all coming and all of our home values are gonna go down. I'm like, but actually if you saw the number of forecasted foreclosures, they are fewer than 2019, which was a banner year in real estate. If everybody today that was pending foreclosure went in, it's still fewer homes.
(38:33):
And in 2019, and we were not scared and property values were not going down in 2019, it was the best year we'd ever had. So it's just creating that awareness and knowledge. So that's really where we're pivoting right now. And then, like you said, telling stories. When we go to meet with buyers or sellers, cuz it's all the time I'm hosting an open house a couple weeks ago, these people are coming in, Every buyer that's coming up, this home's, $895,000 educated people in this room, they've bought and sold lots of real estate. They still just live on the CNN News sticker, right? You can tell Fox News, somebody told 'em something. You're like, Okay, so we've heard this five times this week and they're each coming to me. It was very interesting. So this one couple first comes up and they're like, So what are your predictions on the housing market? It's gonna burst soon. They, that's the all-time favorite line right now, <laugh>. And so as I'm talking to him and I tell stories because a story, here's another reason you wanna tell stories, they're anecdotal and they don't feel personal to someone else. You're not like, I'm telling you something, blah, blah, blah. So tell you a story about what happened. Let me tell you where I was last week. Let me tell you how this played out. True.
Nathan Whitworth (39:26):
It's an offensive way or an offensive way to help somebody through something.
Tammy Woodbury (39:31):
That's right. That's right. And so I'm telling this story and I watch it was nine couples in the home. They're slowly coming up into the kitchen area and they're all hearing it and having their opinions. And as they're all talking, they're like, We didn't really know that about this, this, and this. And we didn't really understand that. All those things impacted. And even just saying something simple like, hey, you keep hearing the word recession, everyone's scared. Our recession housing crisis are not synonymous. Do you know from the last four out of the six recession, home values went up, <affirmative>. So let's talk about the times when they didn't go up. Okay, well let's talk about those indicators. We don't have any of those right now. So we would need those for that housing crisis to occur. So just spending time and listing presentations with buyers and we call when we're prospecting on the phone and we're talking to people.
(40:10):
Have you ever thought about selling your home? Well, Tammy, yeah, but we're not gonna do right now. Interest rates are super high. And also I heard property values are going down. I don't wanna lose any money in my house. Well, tell me where you heard that. Tell me a little bit about where you've been exposed this information. Cause I wanna share something with you, but I wanna learn a little bit first from you and what you've heard. So it's just that telling stories, talking to people about it, educating them, whether it's on video, whether it's here. It was great. Yesterday someone reached out to me and the question she asked, I said, I'm so glad you asked this question. I said, This is always a hard thing to answer. But I actually did a video about this on Facebook this morning, <affirmative>. So I answered her question there, talked to her about it. And then later on that night, I guess she'd gone to my Facebook. She wasn't following me yet, watched it. And I guess then it even felt even less personal cause I recorded it way before she messaged me. And so she's like, Okay, all this makes so much sense now let's go this way that you said because I get it now.
Nathan Whitworth (40:52):
Well fundamentally you're empowering them to be able to make and to be able to make a choice, to get rid of the fear, take the emotion out of it, and to make a choice based on what are the real facts that are in front of them. And I love that. I'm curious what you would say to this, and I don't mean to push you on this too hard, but I think one of the interesting things about new agents that are coming in and they literally just passed the test, they literally just found the brokers. They wanna hang their hat on <affirmative>. They're sitting there thinking, okay, so obviously cuz there is a lot of fear out there, right? I don't have those experiences. I don't have those stories. <affirmative> how do I with almost no experience because you know, you've been doing this for 19 years, you've, you saw 2008, you saw 2009, you've been through this, this is an old hat for you to some extent <affirmative>. For the people who are just coming in for the first time, I mean, what advice would you give them <affirmative>, How do they approach it? And obviously you've already given lots of great advice. I'm just curious. I think that there's a lot of fear for new agents that says, I'm not sure how to approach this <affirmative>, right? <affirmative>, is it the same thing? Would you change your advice for a new agent?
Tammy Woodbury (41:57):
No. So there's different ways you could go about being able to do what I'm gonna say next one, maybe you're at a place in your life where you've had your own real estate experiences and you can share those. There's a girl who just joined her team and she talked about three bad things that happened when she went to buy a home and things that she wished now that she knew it was possible that her agent had done for her. So I'm like, those are your stories and they're very personal and you share that it was your story and that's how you're gonna connect with your buyer. So one, use your own stories. Two, maybe it's just a career story when you realize things about life, every story doesn't have to be a house. It could be like, hey, I needed to figure out how could I pay off X debt?
(42:30):
And I'm talking to my agent and I realize, hey, I've cut this in my money in my piggy bank house. So it doesn't always have to be like I walked into someone's house and that was a story. Great. When you get there if you're on a team, this is what I tell my team all the time. We have a daily meeting and we share stories. So hey, on our team this week I need to tell you about a story that happened because they don't know how close you are or are not to that client. True. Use those stories, talk to your broker. Your broker I hope probably has sold homes, what stories they have. But I think what you hit on and when I think most agents don't know and won't do so much of our job is going to be research, but it's not the kind of research people think it's going to be. And so if you don't have those stories, who out there will help you understand them and you can ask them questions and learn from them and then they become part of your arsal until you have your own unique stories. And then you tell those until then.
Nathan Whitworth (43:16):
And there's, I think most people aren't gonna care whether you say, Hey, I had this experience with a seller, or hey there was another agent that I just talked to this morning in our office that had this experience with a buyer. I mean that degree of separation isn't gonna matter to anybody that's still having the story is immensely powerful. That's right. Tim, this has been amazing. So the final question I wanna ask you is this what is the one thing that you feel like holds really most agents back from really building the successful business with their dreams? If you had to bullet down to one thing, what would that one thing be? Oh,
Tammy Woodbury (43:50):
I don't wanna say it but I'm gonna say it. I, I don't love because actually my personality, I'm like I am, I don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings by nature, but when they're like, what is the one thing I need to do? And I'm like, Okay, can I give you the normal Tammy answer or can I give you the kinda answer that you might wanna talk about me behind my back? So the answer that might make you wanna talk about behind it, but that back is that when people say things are hard, I'm like, the things you just told me were hard. Well, fighting cancer is hard. Losing a loved one is hard. Waking up early to do research is not hard. Going into vacant homes when you're a new agent for four hours a day is not hard. Getting on the phone for five hours a day when you have nothing else in your schedule is not hard thinking that you need to time block and not thinking it's flexible, it's not hard, but it's a discipline.
(44:37):
And I think the thing that people don't know about real estate, if I can say this when you see HGTV and what most everybody, what I thought, you see billboards, it looks like a very sexy industry, but it's not. It's very boring. It's very old and it's a grind <laugh> and that's it. And so your video that you saw them do that looks so awesome, that was 20 minutes of their day or maybe they spend a day shooting, but the other 30 days they were on a phone, they're grinding, they're figuring out systems for emails. I've got
Nathan Whitworth (45:04):
Goosebumps. Yeah, I've got goosebumps because I think you're hitting it on the head. Cuz I have experienced so many other industries where this is a common thing. <affirmative>, you get into it thinking that what you're gonna be doing is spending your time doing is sexy, right? Yeah. And you're like, I'm gonna love this. My days are gonna be amazing. But the reality is 90% of your time is gonna be spent doing the things that are not fun that you hate, that you hate.
Tammy Woodbury (45:31):
To this day, 19 years in, I hate making my daily phone calls. Not like to clients I know, but random prospecting, I don't like doing it. I still, I can do anything in front of anybody else, but I make my calls in a dark room. Cause I'm like, I don't want anybody to hear this. I know how to make phone calls, but I still, I've like gotta psych myself up for it. It will never become fun for me, but it's a necessary evil must occur. I have to do it right. And I think too, when we think about the things that we wanna do, when we talk about research, I think people think, I don't know what they think, I'm a brain surgeon, but I'm, the first time I went to do a real, I opened it up and I'm like, it can't be that hard.
(46:05):
And I was like wait, where does the music come from? And then they have words that popped up and how did they time it? And I remember closing it, being like, Okay, let me look at my calendar and figure out when I can do this. So I looked at my calendar and the only opening I had was the next morning at three 30. So at three 30 the next morning I got my phone out and I got my computer and I opened up YouTube and I opened up my reels app and I went to YouTube and I'm like, how to do a reel? How to add words, how to caption, how to do whatever, how to find training audio. Because I'd heard these words, I didn't know how to do it. And I YouTubed my success into learning how to do reals. Everything I've learned has been from a YouTube or Google search bar.
(46:39):
And most people don't wanna do that. They're like, it's just too hard. I don't know how, It is not hard. It is not brain surgery, it is discipline, period, end of story. And if you called anything else, you're just lying to yourself. And so if you wanna make the paycheck and you wanna have the success and you wanna build a career and you wanna have momentum, what are you willing to give up a little bit of sleep to go on YouTube and learn how to do something? It's not that hard. And if you do one weird one time, it's okay. My kids sometimes are like, What did you do? And did you know what the audio said? I'm like, Oh, mom's in the wild. Sorry, I didn't know I wouldn't do it again. <laugh>. But you know, gotta get out there and do it. So I think that's the biggest thing.
(47:08):
It's like how willing are you to be disciplined with your time and with, like we said, if social media is it, and if getting your name out there is it, stop saying that I got stuck in my transactions. I didn't have time to do my social media. Well did you get up at five and get ready and did you shoot the video at seven before your phone started blowing up? No, it's not fun. And you're like, Well I'm not good at it. It takes me longer. Okay, did you get up at six and get dressed and start doing at six until you got good at it at it, Then you could do it at seven and then you got an assistant you could do at eight, whatever you grow in your business. But what adjustments are you willing to make right now that will send your business further? But it's a discipline.
Nathan Whitworth (47:39):
I love it. Oh gosh, we honestly could not have ended this episode on a better note. Cause I think it's so true for really anybody, any business owner out there, for any entrepreneur that's out there, I do think that there is something to be said for the fact that their daily actions are not aligned with their goals or rather their goals are not aligned with their daily actions. And fundamentally, yeah, it's gonna take some time, it's gonna require some patience, but if you do the right things enough times, you'll get what you want. That's right. Yeah, I agree. Tammy, this has been amazing. Share with us and share with everybody out there. Where can people find out more information about you?
Tammy Woodbury (48:15):
So I'm on Instagram and I make it easy to find my phone number and Facebook and you can email me, call Sky Wright. I'm everywhere. I think if you search my name, it's easy to find me. And if they want my handle, it's just my first name, last name, and realtor. It's the same everywhere I think. Unless it's not someone ping me on that cause supposed to brand appropriately, I'm supposed to be the same everywhere.
Nathan Whitworth (48:32):
<laugh>. That's amazing. Tammy, thank you so much for being,
Tammy Woodbury (48:34):
Yeah, thank you.
Nathan Whitworth (48:35):
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